"Gun Used in [Midland and Odessa] Texas Shooting Was Illegally Manufactured and Sold"

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 09/06/2019 at 16:00 • Filed to: None

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Gotta consider the source on this one.

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For Sweden > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:07

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Never trust the Wall Street Journal

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:09

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*shrugs*

wich one was the midland and oddessa shooting again?

Ash78, voting early and often > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:10

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National Review? Isn’t that the one that George Soros paid Arianna Huffington millions of dollars to start, just as a dare?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > For Sweden 09/06/2019 at 16:11

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You mean the FAKE Wall Street Journal? The FAILING  Wall Street Journal?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 09/06/2019 at 16:12

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That was the one where the guy drove around randomly shooting people after the cops tried to pull him over on the highway. I know, it’s hard to keep them all straight.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Ash78, voting early and often 09/06/2019 at 16:12

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I don’t know, but I don’t think of them as being particularly liberal.

atfsgeoff > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:14

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Just an FYI, there is no federal law prohibiting the manufacture of a firearm by someone without a manufacturing license (07 FFL), nor prohibiting the sale of said home-made firearm, even if it has no serial number; provided that the person who manufactured it did not manufacture it with the intent of selling it.

http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2017/02/21/am-i-required-to-apply-a-serial-number-to-a-homemade-firearm/

The ATF recommends putting a serial number on a home-made firearm before selling, but it’s not a legal requirement.

I do find it hilarious that a home made firearm is perfectly legal with no serial number, but if you decide to put one on it, you commit a felony if you change your mind and decide to remove it.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:14

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2nd Amendment and free market capitalism ! Next you’ll tell me we can’t build our own bombs or sell them to whomever we want!

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:19

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it really is

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:19

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Does it really matter any more.

In other news, I read that San Francisco has labeled the NRA as a terrorist organization. That’s not very helpful.

RPM esq. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:24

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I assume you are joking and actually know, but for anyone who doesn’t: t he National Review was founded by arch-conservative William F. Buckley Jr. and is almost certainly the most influential publication in the history of American conservatism.

ttyymmnn > RPM esq. 09/06/2019 at 16:27

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I thought American Conservatism died with William F. Buckley. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > atfsgeoff 09/06/2019 at 16:27

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I wouldn’t have posted the story if it had come from the “lamestream” media. I figured if NR was reporting an illegal firearm thing, then there must be some basis to it. There are a number of things nowadays that are just beyond what I am able to contemplate any more. But thank you for your thoughtful reply. I’m a firearms owner myself and I am not able to enjoy them as much as I used to because people are dead set on ruining the fun.

Ash78, voting early and often > RPM esq. 09/06/2019 at 16:28

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Coming here to post this. Bill Buckley was from that era of thoughtful discourse and respectful discussion. But that doesn’t get ratings. Nor does it apparently influence mainstream conservative thought anymore...

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:31

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The author misunderstood “ manufactured”.  Unless they meant that the person who sold Ator the gun combined the upper and lower or other parts to ‘create’ the AR-15 he sold to Ator. Regardless the story is indicative of the fact that existing gun-control measures do not function as they are intended. 

WiscoProud > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 16:39

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How do you figure? Aside from bump stocks, there haven’t been this few restrictions on gun ownership in decades. 

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 17:09

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I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it: repeal the second amendment.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > RPM esq. 09/06/2019 at 17:15

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I did not know, but suspected as much, which is why I posted the story. I figured that given what I assumed the leanings of the source to be, and given the subject matter, and given that several prominent pro-Trump Oppos consider me to be a “radical Liberal,” that this story would be pretty much unimpeachable. I did not know about the Buckley connection. Thank you for taking the time to reply. HANWE!!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Ash78, voting early and often 09/06/2019 at 17:16

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Thoughtful discourse and respectful discussion. I aspire to that standard. I fall short often enough, but that’s where I aim.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/06/2019 at 17:19

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There’s a great reply here from atfsgeoff that speaks to some of this. And as I said to him, much of the joy of my own firearms I can’t really find any more. I have them now, mostly, to kill someone before they harm me or my family. And I can’t carry them around because California and, frankly also, because teacher.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WiscoProud 09/06/2019 at 17:23

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I’m talking about people using their firearms and massacring innocents; I do not enjoy my firearms as much as I did when I was a younger man because of that . I’ve just come to love life too much. Any more, I pretty much keep them as tools of deadly force if I ever need them in order to defend my family or my property. Just not much fun any more.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 17:23

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Not willing to go there because the genie’s out of the bottle and there’s no putting him back in.

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 17:24

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We repealed prohibition!

NKato > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 17:39

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No. But we can close loopholes and increase penalties to those who supply firearms to criminals. We can also regulate magazine size reasonably: max 10 for CCW/open carry;  no limit for range use and private property. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 18:04

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I think there is a middle ground somewhere. Bolt action 270 or pump action 12 gauge with a 3 round internal magazine, sure. An AR-15 that can be converted into full auto with a piece of string....not so much.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 18:17

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Was there an amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America that covered that?

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 18:36

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I read that, it was interesting. I think something a lot of people forget about the whole guns in America thing is that it’s one of the few places that I know of where civilians can use lethal force legally without a trial. I’m not saying that’s the problem or anything, just that a lot of people forget that is a lawful option in a lot of states  and situations and that changes the context of the issue. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/06/2019 at 19:18

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For me, I have to wonder where a sensible cutoff ought to be. I watched an episode of one of those cable “reality” shows where the heroine shoots her game with a shiny .308/7.62mm AR-xx and I’m thinking that we’ve lost sight of something somewhere. Or owning a Barrett .50 Calibre sniper rifle. I mean, sure, I definitely enjoy watching guys on YouTube make holes in things with $25 bullets, but the Second Amendment guarantees that? I don't know who gets to decide what's appropriate or not, but I think something's run amok.

Textured Soy Protein > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 19:26

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Uh, not sure if you're being sarcastic because yes, prohibition was the 18th amendment, and it was repealed.

Textured Soy Protein > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/06/2019 at 19:30

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Repealing the second amendment is not the same thing as banning all guns. All it means is removing the constitutional protection for gun ownership. Some guns could be made legal and regulated. Access to them should not be guaranteed.

Textured Soy Protein > NKato 09/06/2019 at 19:32

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Repealing the second amendment is not the same thing as banning all guns. All it means is removing the constitutional protection for gun ownership. Some guns could be made legal and regulated. Access to them should not be guaranteed.

That said, a big fuck to the hell no to all open and concealed carry. There is no reason a private citizen should be permitted to have a gun on their person in public. They can transport them in locked containers to  acceptable locations like shooting ranges.

If you disagree, you’re wrong.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 19:54

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I’m more of the opinion that it’s who can own guns, not what guns you can own (outside of destructive devices like explosives and .50 cal rounds and ridiculous stuff like that) with the huge caveat being handguns. Even outside of ‘control’ mechanism, I find it absurd that there is no formal licensing, which would mean a standard of safety training and basic knowledge (SAFE STORAGE) for all firearm owners. 

DipodomysDeserti > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 19:55

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How would that be any different than what we have now? The NFA and GCA already regulate what guns people can and can’t own. There is no constitutional right to own whatever firearms you want. Most places in the US don’t have gun registration, so there’d be no way to enforce a repeal of the 2nd amendment.

DipodomysDeserti > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 19:56

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Where’d you grow up again?

DipodomysDeserti > atfsgeoff 09/06/2019 at 19:58

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Taking legal advice from a blog written by a non lawyer is a pretty bad idea, especially when  considering NFA and GCA issues. The BATFE likes to pull loooots of shenanigans. I’m a gun owner, and will freely admit that most fellow gun owners are total morons.

Textured Soy Protein > DipodomysDeserti 09/06/2019 at 20:05

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A repeal of the second amendment doesn’t mean all guns would be registered. They should, and most of them should be repossessed by the government. But that’s not what repealing the second amendment is about.

The whole point is that the second amendment is a huge obstacle to any and all restrictions that should be in place but aren’t. Where I grew up (in MURRICA, shocker) has nothing to do with this.

The US has exponentially more guns and gun deaths than any other country in the world and it’s one of the only countries in the world with the kind of constitutional protection for gun ownership provided by the second amendment. The second amendment is very much the root of the problem. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 20:19

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I wasn’t being sarcastic, though perhaps I could be accused of being intellectually lazy. I did not realize that prohibition was tied to an amendment; thank you for filling me in on that.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 20:20

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Why do you mince your words here?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 20:24

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I don’t disagree with you, but your solution is problematic because someone has to decide what constitutes appropriate . I don’t relish watching that fight play out.

I’ve got video of myself firing an M-60 machine gun at my cousin’s house. 100-round belt. Pretty exhilarating . But I’d have to call that on the other side of a reasonable line of appropriateness. Which, please, do not construe me as opining that this particular M-60 should be surrendered, because I am to poorly informed to venture an opinion on that.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/06/2019 at 20:25

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The genie is out of the bottle. And as a nation, we are far, far, far  outside of any kind of space where we can even discuss the issue in a constructive. Meanwhile, the massacre is ongoing.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 09/06/2019 at 20:37

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That’s fair as well, what ifs don’t really improve what’s happening to people right now 

NKato > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2019 at 22:16

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On the point of “exponentially more guns than any other country”, it’s actually a national security asset against foreign invasion. Some countries have drafted invasion plans as early as the 1800's, but found that the high ownership of firearms by the citizenry would mean that any invasion would be inevitably doomed to failure.

That said, I think repealing the 2nd Amendment is a mistake — the 2nd Amendment is in part specifically aimed at the scenario posited in the prior paragraph. “A well regulated militia”, and so forth...

Let’s also take a stab at your suggestion that open-carry and concealed carry is not permissible. Criminals will not obey any federal or state laws that require the citizens to turn in their firearms. Any law-abiding citizens with firearms will then become vulnerable to the armed lawbreakers.

The United States is a huge country, with large swaths of rural land — rural land that is poorly policed in some regions where emergency responses can take up to 15 minutes. Hell, in Alaska, emergency responses can take upwards of two hours .

Your wholesale attack on the concept of gun rights is a mistake. It fails to consider the wide range of potential scenarios that everyday citizens find themselves in outside the oh-so-secure urban metropolises. Which I should add is an ironic misnomer, since Chicago, Detroit, and other cities struggle with out-of-control gun crime that is linked to stolen or already-illegal firearms in various contexts — such as Felons in Possession of Firearms, which is a felony in itself often an automatic prison term.

Sadly, no single solution will truly solve the problem. It takes a combination approach: Addressing the gun culture, addressing the general culture (the lack of empathy for the value of life and respect), and ultimately, addressing the inequality that has grown significantly over the years.

If these things were addressed properly, people would be less prone to popping off and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 09/07/2019 at 00:07

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If you make a gun, that gun cannot be legally transferred to my knowledge . The question is whether this was assembled from commercial parts, the parts were purchased for sale, etc. Straw purchases are definitely illegal.

atfsgeoff > DipodomysDeserti 09/07/2019 at 00:48

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T his guy cites the ATF directly via written correspondence from them. I t’s as legit as you can get.

DipodomysDeserti > atfsgeoff 09/07/2019 at 01:05

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I’ve read the ATF letters myself. They aren’t straight forward and ATF letters aren’t law. As you know, gun laws/regs can be quite nonsensical. The ATF can also decide to just start interpreting a law differently without any real oversight .

I own an NFA weapon via a route that is no longer legal (I’m grandfathered in) so I have a bit of experience with this sort of stuff.

atfsgeoff > DipodomysDeserti 09/07/2019 at 01:10

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Yeah the trust thing was great before they cracked down on it a few years back.

At least they got rid of the CLEO consent requirement.

Textured Soy Protein > NKato 09/08/2019 at 15:05

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No military in the world is sitting around saying “well, we * would* invade the USA, but their citizens have a bunch of guns so nevermind.”

R ural areas aren’t the fucking wild west where people need to protect the homestead from roving bandits.  

For f uck’s sake.

NKato > Textured Soy Protein 09/08/2019 at 19:29

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You didn't even address my other points. You're obviously cherry picking.

Textured Soy Protein > NKato 09/08/2019 at 20:43

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I didn’t address all your points because the shit you said that I did respond to is so fucking idiotic. This ain’t debate club. It’s an internet comment section. If you’re expecting me to play by some code of conduct when it comes to going down the rabbit hole of dissecting why terribad arguments in favor of guns are in fact shitty, you picked the wrong guy. You know how the NRA likes to scare gun owners like “oh no the evil libruls are coming for us ”? They’re right. I’m fucking coming for your guns.

NKato > Textured Soy Protein 09/08/2019 at 21:10

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Then you're going to get dismissed out of hand like a used condom at a one night stand. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > Textured Soy Protein 09/10/2019 at 10:17

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Access isn’t guaranteed now. A person’s right to own a firearm isn’t immutable. People convicted of felonies aren’t allowed to own a gun.

More importantly, I agree that removing the constitutional protection of gun ownership isn’t the same as banning all guns. It is the first step though. I could easily see a city or county banning guns all together.